NVCC - NCCC HPDE Standards - Recommendations

[Black396]

I got to thinking after the meeting last night (which I thought was very productive) that maybe we should start up an on-going thread where we could have discussion about dos - don'ts, standards, criteria, etc.

What is your opinion? Is this a viable media? Are there any reasons why we shouldn't post this in a open forum? We could start by posting the notes from last nights meeting.

For example ONLY...

All helmets must be SA (current)
Mandatory Fire Extinguisher
Four wheels off (mandatory black flag - sit out the rest of the session)

comments, thoughts on creating a thread for this?

[z06racing]

Are there any reasons why we shouldn't post this in a open forum? comments, thoughts on creating a thread for this?

MIKE this forum seems to be an excellent way of communication. I think we are on the right TRACK (NO PUN INTENDED!! [:))] )

Questions can be posted and all can see the answers. [=D>]

[Black396]

Are there any reasons why we shouldn't post this in a open forum? comments, thoughts on creating a thread for this?

MIKE this forum seems to be an excellent way of communication. I think we are on the right TRACK (NO PUN INTENDED!! [:))] )

Questions can be posted and all can see the answers. [=D>]

If we could get the guys up in your area (CCCC & CCPA) involved as well, it should be quite productive.

[wazzzup]

Some of the notes I took last night:

1. Set standards for the instructors to evaluate from so that if an individual say goes to a NASA, or BSR event they are not automatically writen off to the next level. ( We will do this by starting to make log books)
2. Having a criteria for instructors. ( I would like to get a copy of the PCA/NASA/BSR/NCCC standards if possible to work on this.
3. For now on, NO DOT/motorcycle helmets.
4.Mandantory FIRE EXTINGUISHERS!
5. We may look into a passing zone for begginers coming out of turn 4 on the Jeff.
6. We should hold a pre school day session for instructors for roll playing/criteria/and different situations.
7. Long sleeve cotton shirts, long pants, closed toe shoes!!!!

[wazzzup]

A possible school date in November to end the season!!! [:D]

[z06racing]

If we could get the guys up in your area (CCCC & CCPA) involved as well, it should be quite productive.

The news will get out at the next gov meeting.. I am sure Lancaster will jump in....they have alot of racers.

How about someone writing up an article for BLUE BARS with a pic of the paddock area maybe- showing the entire COUNTRY what we did.????

[wazzzup]

If we could get the guys up in your area (CCCC & CCPA) involved as well, it should be quite productive.

The news will get out at the next gov meeting.. I am sure Lancaster will jump in....they have alot of racers.

How about someone writing up an article for BLUE BARS with a pic of the paddock area maybe- showing the entire COUNTRY what we did.????


[:-?] [:-?] [:-?] I think something can be done with that! [:D]

[wazzzup]

What would really be cool is if we could get some of the guys from up north, and some of the guys from the south to join together to make 1. A common set of standards for NCCC HPDEs, and 2. Have roving HDPE schools for NCCC (Summit, Pocono, VIR, etc.) with all clubs participating.

[z06racing]

Here is a pic we could use for BLUE BARS.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/racingfast/SPOOK2004059.jpg



George you are right- Lets let the governors discuss it and formulate this set of guidelines.... Lets write history! [:D]

[wazzzup]

I'd be glad to offer my input, and help in any way that I can. I think we have a decent base, and it just needs tweeking, and tuning. [:D] It would be nice to see NCCC right up there with NASA and all those other guys.

[LilRedCorvette]

A possible school date in November to end the season!!! [:D]

:yesnod:

[wazzzup]

Were already working on it! Should have some info soon! [;)]

[LilRedCorvette]

My B'day is in November...what a great present to myself this would be...

[z06racing]

Was just on the NCM site and they have a driving school in
OCT at Carolina Motorsports Park. Here is a note they
have regarding roll bars in converts.....

"Only convertibles with a functional SCCA type roll bar
that meets the "broomstick" rule will be permitted on
the track. (Broomstick Rule: a broomstick is laid over
the window header to the roll bar and must clear the
occupants' helmets by 2")."

If you want to read their entire agenda click THIS (http://www.corvettemuseum.com/registration/HPDE/agenda.shtml)

[wazzzup]

Brian,

Thanks! I think that is a perfect way to judge them, and personally I like it. [:D] I think we should look further into that. [;)]

By the way, what happened to the bikini ladies? [:-/] You need to bring them back! [:D]

[z06racing]

Brian,Thanks! I think that is a perfect way to judge them, and personally I like it. [:D] I think we should look further into that. [;)]

By the way, what happened to the bikini ladies? [:-/] You need to bring them back! [:D]

YUP.... and we need to put this note on the application- so EVERYONE running verts can find a broomstick before coming to the event and then be given the TEST....no surprises.. Just safety...

I think we can carry this over to removable tops, t-tops etc... with BIG GUYS like JEFF for ex.... run a broomstick over their front pillar and over their helmet- how many times have you seen a helmet above the roofline? No safety there!

Let me work on those dancers..... [:D]

[wazzzup]

There we go! Now that's more like it! [;)]

[urtoslo]

Hey, this broomstick thing is not going to work because most non-convertibles with roll bars can't meet this either. It has to be as per our rule book and it doesn't have the broomstick standard. [:D]

[wazzzup]

If the NCM is doing it then it sounds like something that might be addressed at the next Govorners's meeting for NCCC. [:D] What's that old saying? Safety First? [;)] [:D]

[Black396]

You guys are going to have to excuse me, but this one is total BS!...

The A-pillar on a stock corvette (coupe or vert) is NOT going to hold up to a roll-over. Therefore if you want to do the broomstick thing then it is going to have to go from the top of the rollbar or B-pillar to the front fenders.

Even worse is that the B-pillar on most other makes of cars can't withstand a roll-over.

Other than that put in a 6 point cage with a halo.

The NHRA requires a rollbar for verts (13.99 and faster I believe)
http://www.nhra.com/images/rollbar.gif

Now this would meet the broomstick to front fender line but I don't know of any vette that wouldn't have the rollbar sticking out of the roof line.

[wazzzup]

Easy Greasy! [:))] Nice picture though! Did you draw that? [:-/] [:p] I'm going to eliminate that problem and put a 6 point cage in mine w/a halo! [O:)] Watch Out! One lap of America coming up! [:D]

[urtoslo]

I've seen a C4 convertible that flipped on it's back. [:D]

The A-pillar and the convertible frame both held up the car! The convertible frame did buckle, but did not crush flat... I doubt the wreck was on a race track, but it was going fast enough to flip...

[z06racing]

MIKE you are correct about the coupes not standing up to a roll over... so then why do we allow them to run at all? My point on the broomstick was that big guys are exposing their skulls in a roll over----Before the A-pillar would even touch the ground..... [:O]

Safety IS number one. I will bring this up at the next national comp meeting since the other regions are also holding such driving schools...and see what they are doing... however like Drej says....our school must follow the rulebook... safety and tech items are spelled out.... and for now, THAT is our basis. Until the book gets re-written, that is all we have to go by. What an individual installs in his/her car for their own safety, above the book's requirements, is THEIR choice...

REMEMBER- the fifth you drink on the fourth, may prohibit you from going forth on the fifth!

[Black396]

My point on the broomstick was that big guys are exposing their skulls in a roll over----Before the A-pillar would even touch the ground..... [:O]

Brian I can live with that. I was trying to show while it is better then no protection (head out the top) it is still not safe. I have often thought that some of the rules within the different sanctioning organizations are a little wacky. (as in only partially take care of the problem or not at all)

Hey, this broomstick thing is not going to work because most non-convertibles with roll bars can't meet this either.

I agree with Andrej on this. As short as I am, I don't think I would pass the 2" below the broomstick in my '86 coupe.

Open the topic for discussion, investigate it and determine the impact (no pun intended) but I'm not willing to sanction it simply because it comes from the NCM. (An organization that has no experience in this area at all)

I know, I'm a cantankerous old man...

I'll get off my tirade now. [;)]

[LilRedCorvette]

I know, I'm a cantankerous old man...

I'll get off my tirade now. [;)]

But we love you anyway.... [:p] [:D]

[wazzzup]

My point on the broomstick was that big guys are exposing their skulls in a roll over----Before the A-pillar would even touch the ground..... [:O]

Brian I can live with that. I was trying to show while it is better then no protection (head out the top) it is still not safe. I have often thought that some of the rules within the different sanctioning organizations are a little wacky. (as in only partially take care of the problem or not at all)

Hey, this broomstick thing is not going to work because most non-convertibles with roll bars can't meet this either.

I agree with Andrej on this. As short as I am, I don't think I would pass the 2" below the broomstick in my '86 coupe.

Open the topic for discussion, investigate it and determine the impact (no pun intended) but I'm not willing to sanction it simply because it comes from the NCM. (An organization that has no experience in this area at all)

I know, I'm a cantankerous old man...

I'll get off my tirade now. [;)]

NO! You are just a damn old grouch! [:))] [:p] [:D] [;)]

[C5inWV]

I got to thinking
For example ONLY...

All helmets must be SA (current)
Mandatory Fire Extinguisher
Four wheels off (mandatory black flag - sit out the rest of the session)

comments, thoughts on creating a thread for this?

4 wheels off generally requires only a stop at the pits for the pit meister to look at your car and clear you for return to the track. I don't think we should be more strict than other racing organizations. Perhaps we can ask that the car return to tech after the session, but that may make staffing a full time person in tech necessary.
No rules will replace good sense. I expect most people's desire for driving will be preempted by good sense. If the car feels bad, sounds bad, etc...go directly to the pits. Most of us have left sessions early for one reason or another.
Besides, sliding is how Ralph and I warm up our tires. [:D]

[z06racing]

4 wheels off generally requires only a stop at the pits for the pit meister to look at your car and clear you for return to the track. Perhaps we can ask that the car return to tech after the session, but that may make staffing a full time person in tech necessary.

DAVE I thought CVCC & CCNEPA events @ POCONO required a re-tech for 4 wheels off??

Again, we need to standarize our requirements. Unfortunately we cant go to the rulebook on this one as 4 wheels off in a high speed event simply means DNF [:-?]

MIKE: I will look into the criteria regarding the broomstick idea.... I agree that the NCM has no experience to set such regs.

[Black396]

4 wheels off generally requires only a stop at the pits for the pit meister to look at your car and clear you for return to the track. I don't think we should be more strict than other racing organizations. Perhaps we can ask that the car return to tech after the session, but that may make staffing a full time person in tech necessary.
No rules will replace good sense. [:D]

Absolutely! The rules and procedures need to be flexible to a certain degree.

My comment about sitting the session out came because of a couple of recent incidents (one at the Mazda Drivers event at VIR, the other in SoCal). The VIR incident was unique. The SoCal incident was just the driver pushing too hard.

[wazzzup]

I agree also, I just said that I liked the idea from a safety standpoint, and that it should be addressed. What good is a roll bar doing if it's your head protecting the roll bar?

And your not just an old grouch Mike! You're a special old grouch! [:p]

[janderson]

4 wheels off generally requires only a stop at the pits for the pit meister to look at your car and clear you for return to the track. Perhaps we can ask that the car return to tech after the session, but that may make staffing a full time person in tech necessary.

DAVE I thought CVCC & CCNEPA events @ POCONO required a re-tech for 4 wheels off??

Again, we need to standarize our requirements. Unfortunately we cant go to the rulebook on this one as 4 wheels off in a high speed event simply means DNF [:-?]

MIKE: I will look into the criteria regarding the broomstick idea.... I agree that the NCM has no experience to set such regs.

Our rule at spook has been 4 wheels off = re-tech besides the DNF.
Not sure about sitting out the remainder of the session, but it may be a moot point if re-tech takes 5 - 10 min [:D]